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Thread: Hey AFL what do you think these looters in Baltimore would answer...

  1. #1

    Hey AFL what do you think these looters in Baltimore would answer...

    if you asked them if they were saved, I am willing to venture that at least 80 to 90 percent would say they are, but are just taking a holiday from Christianity to raise hell, to which Jesus would answer them this way:


    Matthew 7:22–23

    22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.



    You see AFL, there is a faculty of reason that we gain when we read the scriptures and learn to interpret it with the help of God's spirit, it is not simply understanding it in a dogmatic way. Here Jesus is clearly alluding to those who despite having accepted him and even done works in his name live their lives in direct opposition to what they claim to believe in, they then lose his favor for working or practicing iniquity. Thus beware to those who once saved feel that they are teflon proof, Jesus here gives a clear warning that is very reasonable, and the way that I interpret it is that with salvation comes responsibility, once saved does not mean you cannot lose God's favor if your works or your acts are not up to his standards.

    If the thousands of black pastors would preach this from the pulpit, instead of shouting so many hallelujahs, if their message was centered around personal responsibility and obedience to God instead of salvation and personal gain, maybe then the black community would not be in the predicament it is in. But instead what we see is a Baptist or Pentecostal church in every corner, next to a bar and a strip club and people in that community accept this as normal, but you cannot fool God or worse you cannot mock him in this manner.

    I maintain that once saved always saved is a fallacy of monstrous proportions and now those shouting it from the pulpits are seeing their chickens come home to roost.
    Last edited by slikmojet; 05-15-2015 at 04:13 PM.
    Ain't nobody better mess with the fine feathered figaro!

  2. #2
    Are you telling me everyone who sins is lost? I have news for you, we are all corrupt.. I get angry and say shit all the time that I regret. Paul of all people preached Faith alone, through Christ alone ... he was the champion of good works under the law, and yet was flawed

    and I'm not sure if that's the best verse to plead your case, what that's telling me is that you can be a goody-two-shoes and have the appearance of faith through works yet be lost!!! basically the exact opposite of your argument!!

    but if your going to strip clubs and stealing from your company on a yearly basis, that's a huge problem and you need to be confronted .. but I'll say it again, judging ones salvation is a dangerous and presumptuous endeavor. there is a difference between justification and sanctification. where's that line drawn?

  3. #3
    I don't think Jesus is casting out sinners, I think Jesus is casting out practicers of sin, unrepentful sinners, sinners who take God for granted and never repent, sinners who don't live according to his moral standards. Do you remember the nation of Israel, didn't they lose God's favor? Didn't God allow first for the Assyrians to conquer the Northern Kingdom and disperse them across the nations? Didn't he allow the Babylonians to do the same to the Two Tribe Kingdom? Later on he helped to restore them, but only after most of them repented, but what happened right after Jesus's death, didn't God allow for the Romans to come and raze Jerusalem to the ground, even allowing them to burn the temple?

    It is clear to me that one can lose God's favor even after one is saved if one forgets his own personal responsibility before God. I don't understand how you are jumping the gun and saying that we cannot judge. No of course not we cannot judge who is saved and who isn't, however it is evident that the way to gain God's favor is first through grace and undeserved kindness and then with our works, you are implying that only through grace and not works we are saved. But to try to turn this scripture (Mat 7:22-23) against it's intended meaning is what's most shocking to me.

    Please don't make me start a barrage of scriptures proving my point, I am right now trying to appeal to your logic and reason first. But if you need scriptures I will overwhelm you, not only with texts, but with contexts as well, your call.
    Last edited by slikmojet; 05-15-2015 at 04:14 PM.
    Ain't nobody better mess with the fine feathered figaro!

  4. #4
    Live according to what you preach, what's so hard about that AFL? Live accordingly, live according to God's standards, lest we lose his favor. Makes perfect sense to me. Your churches are failed institutions because they neglect this simple fact. That is why secular people mock Christians so much because of their hypocrisy.
    Ain't nobody better mess with the fine feathered figaro!

  5. #5
    Monday through Saturday loot, steal and deal drugs and then on Sunday wash up and go to church, that's the Christian way because once saved always saved. What they do is make a mockery of Jesus to the rest of the world, these so called Christians, a mockery!
    Ain't nobody better mess with the fine feathered figaro!

  6. #6
    You know what's most ironic? Is how your political stance on personal responsibility which entails working and living decently and not looking around for excuses or free handouts does not extend to your religious stance as well? Why should we take Jesus' sacrifice for granted and look for excuses or worse yet pretend like our actions have no impact on our salvation just because we were once saved?... This makes absolutely no sense to me!
    Last edited by slikmojet; 05-15-2015 at 04:10 PM.
    Ain't nobody better mess with the fine feathered figaro!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by slikmojet View Post
    I don't think Jesus is casting out sinners, I think Jesus is casting out practicers of sin, unrepentful sinners, sinners who take God for granted and never repent, sinners who don't live according to his moral standards. Do you remember the nation of Israel, didn't they lose God's favor? Didn't God allow first for the Assyrians to conquer the Northern Kingdom and disperse them across the nations? Didn't he allow the Babylonians to do the same to the Two Tribe Kingdom? Later on he helped to restore them, but only after most of them repented, but what happened right after Jesus's death, didn't God allow for the Romans to come and raze Jerusalem to the ground, even allowing them to burn the temple?

    It is clear to me that one can lose God's favor even after one is saved if one forgets his own personal responsibility before God. I don't understand how you are jumping the gun and saying that we cannot judge. No of course not we cannot judge who is saved and who isn't, however it is evident that the way to gain God's favor is first through grace and undeserved kindness and then with our works, you are implying that only through grace and not works we are saved. But to try to turn this scripture (Mat 7:22-23) against it's intended meaning is what's most shocking to me.

    Please don't make me start a barrage of scriptures proving my point, I am right now trying to appeal to your logic and reason first. But if you need scriptures I will overwhelm you, not only with texts, but with contexts as well, your call.
    God destroyed the temple because the Jewish people rejected the Messiah, once Christ died on the cross and sin was destroyed through the sacrificial lamb, the old temple was no longer needed, it was replaced by the TRUE TEMPLE CHRIST!. the old covenant of law was no longer needed, it was replaced by GRACE. the curtain was torn, the Holy of Holy's was opened to all who believed. Peter preached in the temple courtyard during Pentecost, and flames of fire were seen over the heads of believers, signifying the shekinah glory was now residing inside of us.

    I don't take sin lightly or for granted, I'm the first one to tell you that Christians are hypocrites and they're a ton of so called believers in church that ARENT SAVED. No wonder Paul was so aggressively warning and reprimanding the church, its severely harmful to the movement and disgusting. but who is saved and who isn't, is not my call ... Its God's alone
    as far as a church goes Paul took the responsibilities of the Church serious and considered it mandatory for the growth and sanctification of a believer.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by slikmojet View Post
    You know what's most ironic? Is how your political stance on personal responsibility which entails working and living decently and not looking around for excuses or free handouts does not extend to your religious stance as well? Why should we take Jesus' sacrifice for granted and look for excuses or worse yet pretend like our actions have no impact on our salvation just because we were once saved?... This makes absolutely no sense to me!
    from Eph 2:7-10

    That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    SAVED BY FAITH UNTO GOOD WORKS = no works is dead faith

  9. #9
    OK so you want to go the scripture route, OK... here's the first bomb then:


    James 2:14-17New International Version (NIV)

    14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.




    I mean can James make it any clearer? What good is faith, what good is being saved if then you ruin both with bad works? Noooo... show me your works and then I will show you your faith in accordance to your works. I love God's logic here being manifested through James, if only more Christians would read the Bible more in order to gain God's wisdom!
    Last edited by slikmojet; 05-15-2015 at 07:48 PM.
    Ain't nobody better mess with the fine feathered figaro!

  10. #10
    It is amazing to me, amazing! That given what we are witnessing in this day and age respecting society at large, the way people are behaving toward one another, this new and rebellious generation with no need or want for any kind of personal responsibility that religious leaders are still clinging to this false doctrine of once saved always saved... This is what they are preaching from the pulpits... What I don't understand is your logic AFL, how you don't recognize this... Do you need additional scripture or are you OK for now?
    Ain't nobody better mess with the fine feathered figaro!

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