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Thread: Minnesota Vikings have holes and very little money

  1. #11
    I think that they are going to use the draft this year as their adding talent to the pool and that's it.
    We have a ton of cap $ in KWill, JAllen, and Robison that expires next season and hopefully some restructuring or rextending contracts happens. Allen cannot get anywhere near what he has been. KWill will likely get aserious pay cut. Robison likely leaves as we have Griffen ready to step in anyways.
    With all of that $$$ if Ponder doesn't get it done this year, then maybe a look at a FA QB is on the horizon.

  2. #12
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    http://www.overthecap.com/rookie-pool-estimate.php

    UPdated March 21-The following are my estimates for the current costs of the rookie pools for each NFL team. These estimates are based on the assumption that the salary cap will not rise by enough to create a material impact on the NFL rookie pool and that the league will continue to institutue a salary freeze on signing bonus money, rather than reducing it which seems to be their right under the current CBA.

    The chart gives three categories to view. The Year One Pool is the cap allocation given to the team in 2013. Signing bonus allocations are the immediate cash that a team will likely need to use to sign their rookies. The total cap estimate is what it will cost the team in cap dollars to keep the players for four years not including the "proven performance escalator" that is available for rookies selected in rounds 3-7. Clicking on each team should take you to their individual cap page for pick by pick and yearly cap breakdowns. If you have any questions about the methodology used feel free to email me.

    Note: If you go to the website above you can click on the Vikings and it will break down how much money is allocated for each round. This guy missed the Vikings 6th round draft pick, but it gives you a good idea of how much money the Vikings will need to sign their draft picks. It's being reported that the Vikings currently have just under $5M in cap space available. So, as of right now the Vikings do not have enough cap space to sign their 2013 draft picks. This website estimates they will need $6,861,602 to sign their draft picks

    Team Yr One Pool Signing Bonus Allocation Total Cap Estimate
    49ers $7,925,751 $9,023,004 $42,213,467
    Eagles $7,826,289 $16,725,156 $42,144,694
    Chiefs $7,415,574 $16,702,296 $39,771,250
    Jaguars $7,275,702 $17,762,808 $39,346,135
    Dolphins $7,179,874 $10,899,496 $38,286,687
    Lions $7,132,706 $15,570,824 $38,502,591
    Vikings $6,861,602 $11,246,408 $36,633,781
    Raiders $6,545,991 $14,843,964 $35,254,594
    Titans $6,449,572 $11,218,288 $32,590,835
    Cardinals $6,433,173 $12,772,692 $34,465,935
    Ravens $6,357,847 $5,991,388 $33,619,734
    Bengals $6,322,699 $9,090,796 $33,756,374
    Rams $6,256,958 $12,067,832 $33,639,546
    Falcons $5,958,409 $6,013,636 $31,553,572
    Jets $5,610,469 $11,101,876 $29,986,389
    Buccaneers $5,588,204 $9,392,816 $29,698,813
    Browns $5,391,701 $11,846,804 $28,855,080
    Texans $5,320,999 $6,703,996 $28,134,004
    Chargers $5,253,989 $9,675,956 $28,163,086
    Bills $5,180,294 $11,001,176 $27,796,023
    Steelers $5,127,332 $7,549,328 $27,277,358
    Giants $5,031,061 $7,164,244 $26,804,681
    Packers $4,844,914 $6,419,656 $25,830,780
    Seahawks $4,701,277 $2,605,108 $24,634,444
    Cowboys $4,258,138 $7,312,552 $22,698,804
    Panthers $3,991,540 $7,866,160 $21,468,387
    Broncos $3,919,615 $5,958,460 $20,866,027
    Colts $3,751,085 $5,284,340 $19,917,902
    Saints $3,676,733 $6,606,932 $19,519,872
    Bears $3,621,428 $6,385,712 $19,444,372
    Redskins $3,500,346 $2,661,384 $18,351,630
    Patriots $3,309,961 $5,139,844 $17,764,234

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by IIsweet View Post
    I think that they are going to use the draft this year as their adding talent to the pool and that's it.
    We have a ton of cap $ in KWill, JAllen, and Robison that expires next season and hopefully some restructuring or rextending contracts happens. Allen cannot get anywhere near what he has been. KWill will likely get aserious pay cut. Robison likely leaves as we have Griffen ready to step in anyways.
    With all of that $$$ if Ponder doesn't get it done this year, then maybe a look at a FA QB is on the horizon.
    Kevin Williams is very likely playing his last season in Minnesota. He's going to be 33 in August and his play has been dropping off the last couple of seasons. Allen is going to be 32 tomorrow. I don't know how much longer he'll be a Viking but the way we're going youth now, it won't be long. I think Robison and Griffen are the plan for the future.

    Ponder better play his best to get an extension. If he does what he has been doing, it will be obvious he's not going to get it done anyway. He'll be doing us a favor and letting us move on. It's cheaper to draft a QB than to extend a veteran who isn't performing. It looks like the wave of the future at QB is to draft a guy, give him a couple seasons to see if he figures it out, and if he doesn't, try again. Too many rookies playing good football to waste time with a bozo any more.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ovike View Post
    http://www.overthecap.com/rookie-pool-estimate.php

    UPdated March 21-The following are my estimates for the current costs of the rookie pools for each NFL team. These estimates are based on the assumption that the salary cap will not rise by enough to create a material impact on the NFL rookie pool and that the league will continue to institutue a salary freeze on signing bonus money, rather than reducing it which seems to be their right under the current CBA.

    The chart gives three categories to view. The Year One Pool is the cap allocation given to the team in 2013. Signing bonus allocations are the immediate cash that a team will likely need to use to sign their rookies. The total cap estimate is what it will cost the team in cap dollars to keep the players for four years not including the "proven performance escalator" that is available for rookies selected in rounds 3-7. Clicking on each team should take you to their individual cap page for pick by pick and yearly cap breakdowns. If you have any questions about the methodology used feel free to email me.

    Note: If you go to the website above you can click on the Vikings and it will break down how much money is allocated for each round. This guy missed the Vikings 6th round draft pick, but it gives you a good idea of how much money the Vikings will need to sign their draft picks. It's being reported that the Vikings currently have just under $5M in cap space available. So, as of right now the Vikings do not have enough cap space to sign their 2013 draft picks. This website estimates they will need $6,861,602 to sign their draft picks

    Team Yr One Pool Signing Bonus Allocation Total Cap Estimate
    49ers $7,925,751 $9,023,004 $42,213,467
    Eagles $7,826,289 $16,725,156 $42,144,694
    Chiefs $7,415,574 $16,702,296 $39,771,250
    Jaguars $7,275,702 $17,762,808 $39,346,135
    Dolphins $7,179,874 $10,899,496 $38,286,687
    Lions $7,132,706 $15,570,824 $38,502,591
    Vikings $6,861,602 $11,246,408 $36,633,781
    Raiders $6,545,991 $14,843,964 $35,254,594
    Titans $6,449,572 $11,218,288 $32,590,835
    Cardinals $6,433,173 $12,772,692 $34,465,935
    Ravens $6,357,847 $5,991,388 $33,619,734
    Bengals $6,322,699 $9,090,796 $33,756,374
    Rams $6,256,958 $12,067,832 $33,639,546
    Falcons $5,958,409 $6,013,636 $31,553,572
    Jets $5,610,469 $11,101,876 $29,986,389
    Buccaneers $5,588,204 $9,392,816 $29,698,813
    Browns $5,391,701 $11,846,804 $28,855,080
    Texans $5,320,999 $6,703,996 $28,134,004
    Chargers $5,253,989 $9,675,956 $28,163,086
    Bills $5,180,294 $11,001,176 $27,796,023
    Steelers $5,127,332 $7,549,328 $27,277,358
    Giants $5,031,061 $7,164,244 $26,804,681
    Packers $4,844,914 $6,419,656 $25,830,780
    Seahawks $4,701,277 $2,605,108 $24,634,444
    Cowboys $4,258,138 $7,312,552 $22,698,804
    Panthers $3,991,540 $7,866,160 $21,468,387
    Broncos $3,919,615 $5,958,460 $20,866,027
    Colts $3,751,085 $5,284,340 $19,917,902
    Saints $3,676,733 $6,606,932 $19,519,872
    Bears $3,621,428 $6,385,712 $19,444,372
    Redskins $3,500,346 $2,661,384 $18,351,630
    Patriots $3,309,961 $5,139,844 $17,764,234
    I'm not sure this necessarily has cap implications. I'd thought I remembered hearing that the teams rookie allocations are essentially considered a different part of the capspace. I think this was changed with the rookie spending cap. I'm assuming we have around $5million over what it will take to sign our rookies actually.

    EDIT - Then again, I've been wrong a fair bit recently. I doubt it is anything to worry about. Who's to say we don't draft a DT and cut Williams? Pull the ol' switcheroo like last year with Longwell. Something would have to happen, obviously, if this was the case but, they have some wiggle room.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ovike View Post
    http://www.overthecap.com/rookie-pool-estimate.php

    UPdated March 21-The following are my estimates for the current costs of the rookie pools for each NFL team. These estimates are based on the assumption that the salary cap will not rise by enough to create a material impact on the NFL rookie pool and that the league will continue to institutue a salary freeze on signing bonus money, rather than reducing it which seems to be their right under the current CBA.

    The chart gives three categories to view. The Year One Pool is the cap allocation given to the team in 2013. Signing bonus allocations are the immediate cash that a team will likely need to use to sign their rookies. The total cap estimate is what it will cost the team in cap dollars to keep the players for four years not including the "proven performance escalator" that is available for rookies selected in rounds 3-7. Clicking on each team should take you to their individual cap page for pick by pick and yearly cap breakdowns. If you have any questions about the methodology used feel free to email me.

    Note: If you go to the website above you can click on the Vikings and it will break down how much money is allocated for each round. This guy missed the Vikings 6th round draft pick, but it gives you a good idea of how much money the Vikings will need to sign their draft picks. It's being reported that the Vikings currently have just under $5M in cap space available. So, as of right now the Vikings do not have enough cap space to sign their 2013 draft picks. This website estimates they will need $6,861,602 to sign their draft picks

    Team Yr One Pool Signing Bonus Allocation Total Cap Estimate
    49ers $7,925,751 $9,023,004 $42,213,467
    Eagles $7,826,289 $16,725,156 $42,144,694
    Chiefs $7,415,574 $16,702,296 $39,771,250
    Jaguars $7,275,702 $17,762,808 $39,346,135
    Dolphins $7,179,874 $10,899,496 $38,286,687
    Lions $7,132,706 $15,570,824 $38,502,591
    Vikings $6,861,602 $11,246,408 $36,633,781
    Raiders $6,545,991 $14,843,964 $35,254,594
    Titans $6,449,572 $11,218,288 $32,590,835
    Cardinals $6,433,173 $12,772,692 $34,465,935
    Ravens $6,357,847 $5,991,388 $33,619,734
    Bengals $6,322,699 $9,090,796 $33,756,374
    Rams $6,256,958 $12,067,832 $33,639,546
    Falcons $5,958,409 $6,013,636 $31,553,572
    Jets $5,610,469 $11,101,876 $29,986,389
    Buccaneers $5,588,204 $9,392,816 $29,698,813
    Browns $5,391,701 $11,846,804 $28,855,080
    Texans $5,320,999 $6,703,996 $28,134,004
    Chargers $5,253,989 $9,675,956 $28,163,086
    Bills $5,180,294 $11,001,176 $27,796,023
    Steelers $5,127,332 $7,549,328 $27,277,358
    Giants $5,031,061 $7,164,244 $26,804,681
    Packers $4,844,914 $6,419,656 $25,830,780
    Seahawks $4,701,277 $2,605,108 $24,634,444
    Cowboys $4,258,138 $7,312,552 $22,698,804
    Panthers $3,991,540 $7,866,160 $21,468,387
    Broncos $3,919,615 $5,958,460 $20,866,027
    Colts $3,751,085 $5,284,340 $19,917,902
    Saints $3,676,733 $6,606,932 $19,519,872
    Bears $3,621,428 $6,385,712 $19,444,372
    Redskins $3,500,346 $2,661,384 $18,351,630
    Patriots $3,309,961 $5,139,844 $17,764,234
    Thanks Ovike, this is really good info. If true, we will indeed need to trade a few picks into next year, and we have no hope of signing Winfield. But something must be wrong in that. Maybe they meant we have $5myn of space excluding our rookie signings. I know they are still talking to Winfield, and they certainly don't expect him to play for nothing. So I'm not sure how to read this. But it's great info, so thanks again.

    Does anybody have the list someone posted earlier of how much cap space each Viking is taking up. I recall Allen is way up on the list, and Williams is a distant 2nd, but after that I draw a blank.

  6. #16
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    Explaining the NFL Rookie Pool and its Impact on the Salary Cap
    Salary cap by jason
    http://overthecap.com/explaining-the...he-salary-cap/

    I had a question about this in the comments of one of the cap posts and thought it would make a good topic. I think most people have realized I have a page on the site that provides estimates for each teams Rookie Pool, which provides estimates for the cap costs of each player that will be drafted in the 2013 NFL draft. The salary cap has so many parts that it can be confusing at times and I think this just adds another layer of confusion to some and how it affects the salary cap and free agency. So lets examine in a bit more detail.

    What is the “Rookie Pool”?
    In the old CBA the NFL had a cap on how many cap dollars could be spent on rookies during their first season in the NFL. This was called the “Entering Player Pool” and was generally considered the “Rookie Pool” or “Rookie Salary Cap”. The league allowed a players cap hit to rise by 25% of his first years cap charge which in theory would keep rookie salaries in check. However, in practice it was not the case as teams and agents used all types of neat little cap mechanisms to render the 25% rule invalid, especially for highly drafted players. This was a major renegotiating point in the new CBA.
    Per the current CBA each NFL team is allotted a maximum amount of dollars to spend on their draft picks not only in year 1 cap charges, but also in total value. Those loopholes that existed in the prior CBA were all eliminated and thus rookies are limited to increases that equal 25% of their first years cap charge. The new CBA refers to these allocations as the “Total Rookie Allocation” and “Year One Rookie Allocation”. The values for each team are determined by the position the player is drafted. I just call them “Rookie Pools” because I’m used to using that term.
    While the formula itself is a secret for calculating the charges those of us who track the numbers are able to get a good idea of how the process works. In general its an exponential decay where there is rapid drops at the top of the draft in terms of value and minimal drops as you get into the 3rd and 4th round of the draft. This gives us a good idea at forecasting the charges, though the NFL and NFLPA made it a bit easier due to the way that they grow the rookie pool.
    The various rookie pools grow (or fall) by the same percentage as the salary cap. To illustrate we will take a player drafted in round 7 in 2012 that had a year one rookie pool number of $402,000 which would mean they earned $390,000 in base salary and $12,000 in bonus prorations. The 2013 cap grew by 1.99% which would make that players allotment in 2013 grow to $410,000. Sounds simple except the problem with that formula is that it fails to take into consideration the basic increase in minimum salary for a player per CBA rules. Our new minimum salary is $405,000. That would leave just $5,000 in prorated bonus money to be spent on the player drafted in an identical slot.
    I think all sides agree that with a rising cap it would be unfair for a player drafted in 2012 to earn a bonus that is $23,000 more than the player earns in 2013. So basically what the league has appeared to do is freeze the bonus payments and so that there is no loss of guaranteed salary as long as the salary cap is rising. My assumption is the same will occur this year. The only real growth in rookie salaries will be for players selected in the first two rounds who will have a $15,000 or so higher Year 1 cap hit that allows them to earn slightly higher raises due to the 25% rule. Beyond the 2nd round the 25% rule is not a factor and limited growth will occur. In the future the cap will need to rise by around 3.7% for the bonus money to really rise over a prior year when taking into account minimum salary growth of $15,000 per year.
    So keeping all of this in mind we should get a pretty decent idea, barring some big changes by the League, as to what each team will spend on their rookies.

    How does the “Rookie Pool” affect the Salary Cap
    This is probably the most confusing aspect for most people. Some people this its additional money added on top of the salary cap which is not the case at all. The “Rookie Pool” is a cap within the salary cap. It is essentially money that your team needs to place aside for your rookies. It is not added to your salary cap at all.
    The Chiefs (pretending there is no trade for Alex Smith) would have an allotment of around $7.445 million for their rookie class. What that means is that at the end of the preseason, assuming all their rookies make the club, the Chiefs will need to devote $7.445 million in cap dollars to their rookies. So if the Chiefs had a salary cap of $123 million their effective cap space for spending is only $115.55 million in 2013.
    However when reading this it is easy to jump to conclusions that the Chiefs need to be $7.445 million under the cap today just to sign rookies. Not exactly. We need to remember that in the offseason the salary cap is based on the “Rule of 51” which means only the top 51 cap charges (plus dead money) count towards a teams salary cap. Most teams have more than 51 players under contract. The Chiefs have 55.
    This means that each of the Chiefs 7 draft selections will displace a player who is currently counting towards the salary cap limit. Most of these players earn $405,000. So if you have 51 or more players under contract here is the general rule as to how you calculate the net cap space that is being eaten up by your rookie pool:
    Year One Rookie Pool – (405,000 x number of draft picks)
    For KC that is equal to just $4.61 million a big difference between the $7.445 million we first thought we needed to set aside. So is the Chiefs have at least $5 million in cap room they can sign free agents and not need to worry about their rookie dollars being compromised. If you are a team with less than 51 players that you will need to adjust your calculation accordingly to
    Year One Rookie Pool – (405,000 x (number of draft picks – (51- players under contract) )
    These are your net cap space requirements for rookies or what I would call your “Effective Rookie Pool”.

    So How Much Real Cap Space Does My Team Have?
    A good way to determine how much cap room your team likely has to spend is to take our salary cap space estimates and then subtract your “Effective Rookie Pool”. While I know our numbers wont be perfect for most teams they should at least be a good indicator of cap space for most of the teams in the NFL. We’ll always strive to be better so any help is always appreciated. Feel free to post, email or tweet any further questions.

  7. #17
    This is a pretty good explanation Ovike, both on the rookie cap, how it fits within the overall cap, and what makes up the cap (top 51...). Not sure I completely understand the whole thing, but at least some clarity has been added.

  8. #18
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    This is my take on the article Red. I’m going to round off some of the numbers.

    The Vikings are currently $5M under the salary cap. So they have a total cap salary number of $118M ($123M - $5M). The $118M is the cap hit for the highest 51 player salaries on the team.

    The Vikings will have 11 picks in the upcoming draft. Their approximate cap hit will be $6.8M. These 11 players are going to take the place of the lowest 11 salaries that are currently on the Vikings roster. If you use this guy’s numbers he assumes that the lowest salaries on the team are the NFL minimum of $405,000. Therefore the current cap hit for the lowest paid 11 players on the Viking roster is $4.5M (11 x $405,000).

    So when you replace the 11 lowest salaries with the 11 salaries of the draft picks you end up with a new cap number of $120.3M ($118 – $4.5M + $6.8M). This would leave the Vikings approximately $2.7M ($123M - $120.3M) under the cap after the draft.

    Hopefully $2.7M is enough to resign Antoine Winfield.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ovike View Post
    T...
    Great info and thanks for posting it!

    I had actually been under the misconception that under the new CBA the rookie pool was a section allocated essentially to the side of the cap so, it's definitely good to know.

    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/cap-hit/

    Here is probably the best site I've found for football contract info. Right now, they have the Vikings at just shy of $6.7 million in cap space. I guess, in some good news, if you look at the top 51 contracts and consider the latest round guys will likely be coming in at league minimum deals, we'll actually be taking some money off with a couple picks. Right now, we have a second punter counting against our cap and he's making above the minimum.

    There is the scary number of Jared Allen's cap hit at the top though. Basically paints the picture of why something will need to be reworked or we'll likely be letting Griffin get a go at the starting job. $17 million is a heavy load to lift.

  10. #20
    Hope we can find another couple million. I think getting an offer of 5myn for Winfield would be fair and probably enough to keep him. That would be great.

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